cc: , , "'Reinhard Boehm'" , "'Susan Solomon'" , "'Adrian Simmons'" date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:46:42 +0100 from: "Reinhard Boehm" subject: AW: Draft paper on Chinese temperature trends to: "'Phil Jones'" , "'Kevin Trenberth'" Phil et al., Here are some remarks on the Vienna part of your paper. I hope not too late! Please change two things: 1) The recent Vienna site ist Wien - Hohe Warte, Wien - Höhe Warte. It is true that we have those "ö"s quite often in our language, but not in this case. 2) I would not call the Hohe Warte site an urban one. In fact it is a 19^th century cottage area with not much changes since then. Therefore it shows no significant increase of the urban excess-temperatures. Because of 2) your comparative discussion of London and Vienna may mislead the reader a bit by letting him believe that the Vienna heat island is so much smaller than the one of London because you mention the Wien-Hohe Warte series to be urban. I know this has nothing to do with your argument that both cities show no trend of the urban excess temperature. In fact, I showed in my 1998 paper that the mean heat island of Vienna (=the difference of the densely built-up city centre vs. the rural comparative stations) is approximately 1.5K as well, thus being near to the one of London. The pity is, that we have no city centre series prior to 1950, thus I did send you only the Hohe Warte plus the longest nearby rural one of Großenzersdorf. I could provide you also with one representative series from the historic centre (the C1-site of the 1998-paper) which at least until 1995 showed no trend vs. the rural sites but a constant surplus of 1.5K. We could update this one to 1997 within a few days if You are interested. Cheers Reinhard P.S.: As to the EI-corrections we have now started to have a final look at what was sent by the Italians (the new question mark in the 1860s they have found). So this has complicated my work which had been already ready for writing the paper. But I hope we will see clearer now in a few weeks whether to once more add another EI-Correction or not. Another reason for my delays is a privat book-project which eats up all my sparetime at home. It will be in German so I have attached the front page and the table of contents - if there is interest of any german speaking member of your team please tell me and I ll send you a copy (in April it should be printed). But this has to be finished by the end of February latest, so there is some hope for the future. Our group is obviously too small to allow the few staff members to work the 40 official hours alone, so the things which are the most interesting ones have to be postponed too often. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Von: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] Gesendet: Montag, 14. Jänner 2008 17:28 An: Kevin Trenberth Cc: david.parker@metoffice.gov.uk; Thomas.C.Peterson@noaa.gov; Reinhard Boehm; Susan Solomon; Adrian Simmons Betreff: Re: Draft paper on Chinese temperature trends Kevin, Will do. I can add in the UHI values for London/Vienna. I normally do the abstract last, but did it earlier this time and didn't really go back to it. The interesting bit for later is the use of SSTs as a rural series and then the comparison of Chinese land with SST. All the jump in the land seems to occur to me in the mid-1970s (the 76/77 climate shift). Cheers Phil At 16:03 14/01/2008, Kevin Trenberth wrote: Hi Phil I'll read it more thoroughly later. My quick impression, more from the abstract than the main text, is that you are defensive and it almost seems that there is a denial of the UHI in part. Yet later in the abstract and nicely in the first two sentences of the conclusions, you recognize that the UHI is real and the climate is different in cities. The point is that the homogenization takes care of this wrt the larger scale record and that UHI is essentially constant at many sites so that it does not alter trends. So I urge you to redo the abstract and be especially careful of the wording. You might even start with: The Urban Heat Island (UHI) is a real phenomenon in urban settings that generally makes cities warmer than surrounding rural areas. However, UHIs are evident at both London and Vienna, but do not contribute to the warming trends over the 20th century because the city influences have not changed much over that time. Similarly, ... Regards Kevin Phil Jones wrote: Dear All, I have mentioned to you all that I've been working on a paper on Chinese temperature trends. This partly started because of allegations about Jones et al. (1990). This shows, as expected, that these claims were groundless. Anyway - I'd appreciate if you could have a look at this draft. I have spelt things out in some detail at times, but I'm expecting if it is published that it will get widely read and all the words dissected. I know you're all very busy and I could have been doing something more useful, but it hasn't taken too long. The European examples are just a simple way to illustrate the difference between UHIs and urban-related warming trends, and an excuse to reference Luke Howard. Cheers Phil Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email [1]p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- **************** Kevin E. Trenberth e-mail: [2]trenbert@ucar.edu Climate Analysis Section, [3]www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/trenbert.html NCAR P. O. Box 3000, (303) 497 1318 Boulder, CO 80307 (303) 497 1333 (fax) Street address: 1850 Table Mesa Drive, Boulder, CO 80305 Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\ENTW C.pdf" Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\Heiße Luft-Inhaltsverzeichnis.doc"