date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:59:46 +0100 from: "Thorne, Peter (Climate Research)" subject: RE: FOI/EIR requests - Strategy - Next Steps to: "Phil Jones" Phil, I like what you have thus far. Enclosed however is a slew of comments. I haven't touched the text itself as I don't want the writing style to appear schizophrenic. I would urge trying to be comprehensive which means expanding the text considerably. Be very careful over use of language, use of qualified words like "some" just opens you up to yet more inane FOI requests and should be avoided at all costs. I also think you need to be extremely careful in how you describe the station data. The only version you have for almost all stations as far as I know is the value added data which has been QC'ed and where nec. adjusted. I'd urge you to be explicit in this regard and as to the underlying reasons (lack of space in 1982 computers). And to avoid the use of the term "raw" in association with the station data. Generally the more opaque this is the more work eventually will accrue for you (and us, but mainly you). If we're forced to wash our laundry we may as well use Daz brilliant white ... so be inanely pedantic in the details so that you minimise the angles for attack. It will take longer right now but I suspect in the long run be less work which means you can do science if you can still remember what that is (I vaguely do myself ...). With respect to the station data agreements I think it key you link to as many external restrictions examples as possible so you can show this is a general issue and not specific to HadCRUT. HadEX is another good one where we had great coverage but only because we use indicies and not the station values because the providers are not willing to share the station data widely. Personally I think we can't have enough such examples. I know NCDC may be able to be pinged for examples if you want me to ... Is there any documentation in GCOS reports we can point to, especially AOPC where we can show that you are championing open access? That would shut them up slightly so is VERY DEFINITELY worth looking for and linking to as it shows you in the correct light. I think some text showing taht CRU is fighting for openness in relevant forums would be a gold dust addition. I have sent on original drafts to Marion and requested a meeting with her. If we can schedule a telecon with me, you, her and Dave that would be great. Let me know when you think this would be appropriate so that I can schedule at this end ... I have pinged the relevant person to resolve the Georgia Tech UK data conundrum for you. Peter -- Peter Thorne, Climate Research scientist Met Office Hadley Centre, FitzRoy Road, Exeter, EX1 3PB. tel. +44 1392 886552 fax. +44 1392 885681 [1]http://www.hadobs.org ______________________________________________________________________________________ From: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] Sent: 29 July 2009 15:58 To: Thorne, Peter (Climate Research) Subject: FW: FOI/EIR requests - Strategy - Next Steps Peter, We're working on some web text here. It will have in more than Dave has said in the attached. So don't read this yet. I'll send it down once Tim has had a look through. The issue now is #3 in the attached - PDJ to seek retrospective permission from the Met Office for the release of the data to Georgia Tech. Now I know this is sort of my data. I don't know who you'd ask or if you should anyway. What they were sent was everything 30N to 30S (roughly), so this includes some British Islands like St Helena and some in the Pacific. I guess I could say these are OK as they covered by WMO Res 40. It would appear from looking at the NERC/MO agreement (see link) on the BADC site that this doesn't seem to be being followed in the UK. [2] http://badc.nerc.ac.uk/data/surface/met-nerc_agreement.html When we need it Mike will set up what you suggest - a special ftp site just for the two of us (CRU and MOHC). Cheers Phil Subject: FW: FOI/EIR requests - Strategy - Next Steps Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:24:25 +0100 X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: FOI/EIR requests - Strategy - Next Steps Thread-Index: AcoPlZFPSgyLgEyLQXGmeHZi7MdsWQAwm6Dg From: "Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\)" To: "Colam-French Jonathan Mr \(ISD\)" , "Jones Philip Prof \(ENV\)" , "Ogden Annie Ms \(MAC\)" , "Mcgarvie Michael Mr \(ACAD\)" Folks, Further to the memo below, Jonathan sent me his summary of our approach and asked me to comment and pass onto you. There are a couple of 'comments' that I have inserted that I'd appreciate input on, particularly from Phil. Hope this helps us to move forward... Cheers, Dave <> ______________________________________________ From: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:11 PM To: Colam-French Jonathan Mr (ISD); Jones Philip Prof (ENV); Mcgarvie Michael Mr (ACAD); Ogden Annie Ms (MAC) Subject: FOI/EIR requests - Strategy Folks, Just to summarise our approach to the various requests we have received to date that we have agreed: A. 'Country' requests 1. Respond to Montford request as normally - cite s.21, information available (see point 2) 2. Place any/all agreements (or links thereto - Met Office) on the CRU website 3. Acknowledge & respond to all 44? Country requests by citing s.21 and pointing them to the CRU website B. Data requests 1. Acknowledge requests 2. Deal with as per normal, cite Reg. 12(5)(f) re agreements and Reg. 12(4)(b) 'manifestly unreasonable' on the grounds that the data is already available publicly via the ClimateAudit.org website, and note that a format of the data (gridded) already is publicly available 3. Note that raw data is available from the Met Office and other national weather services (also goes to 'manifestly unreasonable') . C. McIntyre appeal 1. Maintain position regarding Reg 12(5)(f) re confidentiality agreements and point him to published versions on website 2. Add 'manifestly unreasonable' on basis that he already has the requested information in his possession & is also available elsewhere 3. Handle as per published protocols with initial 'informal' approach, followed by review by JCF D. 'Other' requests 1. Acknowledge requests 2. Deal with as usual, citing whatever section is appropriate above to the requested information E. General points 1. Interaction with any media to be handled by Press Office 2. Approval of transfer to Georgia Tech would be good to find 3. We are NOT citing s.14 for the 'country' requests 4. Estimated time to locate ALL agreements regarding data transfer is within the 18 hour appropriate limit 5. Any correspondence to go out will be circulated prior to transmission I hope I have captured what was agreed - please comment if your understanding is different than mine Cheers, Dave ____________________________ David Palmer Information Policy & Compliance Manager University of East Anglia Norwich, England NR4 7TJ Information Services Tel: +44 (0)1603 593523 Fax: +44 (0)1603 591010 Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\cru_data_availability_pwt.doc"