cc: Olga Solomina , Keith Briffa , Ricardo Villalba , ValÈrie Masson-Delmotte , Oyvind.Paasche@bjerknes.uib.no, Eystein Jansen date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:42:03 +0200 from: Valérie Masson-Delmotte subject: Re: Thompson et al, 2006 paper to include to: Jonathan Overpeck Thanks Olga. It seems to me that there is still a large uncertainty about the temperature versus precipitation effect on these tropical glaciers. Other indications from south America are related to lake levels with contrasted views in the low versus highlands. Several references suggest that there is the end of a wet period after the early Holocene in tropical south America ; this is expected to induce an increase of 18O signals. One review was conducted several years ago within the PEPI project (http://wwwpaztcn.wr.usgs.gov/pcaw/ and references herein). I think that the state of the art is that we have no reliable proxy record that is sensivite to temperature only on the tropical lands for the Holocene; therefore the statement that was written for the Holocene was based on areas of the tropical oceans where SST reconstructions were published. Do we have to write more explicitely about the uncertainty? Valérie. Jonathan Overpeck a écrit : > Hi Olga - it is not too late to ask these good questions. Glaciers > can, of course, be affected by both temp and precip changes, so the > question is really for Valerie (land) and Eystein (ocean) - are the > land and ocean data from the tropics strong enough to outweigh what > the glaciers are saying about tropical temps earlier in the Holocene? > Lonnie's Figure 8 (see attached) presents Hauscaran and Kilimanjaro > data that suggest early to mid warmth in tropical South America and > Africa that is (if the O-isotopes are temp) greater than today. > Personally, I'm quite unsure that these are reliable temperature > records, BUT if we want to make that case, we have to be convincing. > What do terrestrial and ocean temp data say? > > Thanks Olga for sending the proposed revised text - I think Eystein is > putting finishing touches on the next draft for LA etc. review. > > Best, Peck > > >> ¤ >> Hello everybody, >> >> I attach here a version of glacier box and suggestions (in red) how >> to include there the reference to the new Thompson et al., 2006 paper. >> >> In this relation - I am getting more and more concern about our >> statement that the Early Holocene was cool in the tropics - this >> paper shows that it was, actually, warm - ice core evidences+glaciers >> were smaller than now in the tropical Andes. The glaciers in the >> Southern Hemisphere (Porter, 2000, review paper) were also smaller >> than at least in the Neoglacial. We do not cite Porter's paper for >> the reason that we actually do not know how to explain this - orbital >> reason does not work for the SH, but if we do cite it (which is fair) >> we have to say that during the Early to Mid Holocene glaciers were >> smaller than later in both Northen, and Southern Hemisphere, >> including the tropics, which would contradict to our statement in the >> Holocene chapter and the bullet. It is probably too late to rise >> these questions, but still just to draw your attention. >> >> I am going to Kamchatka tomorrow, but will be avaliable by e-mail >> from time to time. >> >> All the best, >> olga >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Jonathan Overpeck >> >> *To:* Olga Solomina >> >> *Cc:* Eystein Jansen ; >> oyvind.paasche@bjerknes.uib.no >> >> >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:42 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Wg1-ar4-ch06] Fwd: Additional In-Press Papers >> >> >> Hi Olga - I agree, and hope that you and òyvind make sure you >> include it in the next round of edits, which will begin very >> soon. We have all of the new text and Eystein is assembling for >> authors to check. This same new draft will be the one that >> Eystein and I work on to achieve more consistency and the proper >> length. Although we've cut some text already, some received has >> grown too. So... think about a way to include the reference to >> Lonnie's work without lengthening if you can. >> >> >> OK? Many thanks, Peck >> >> >>> Hi Peck, >> >> >> >> Lonnie's paper is a very good one and suitable for the >> glacier box. If it is still possible I would add this reference. >> >> >> >> olga >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Jonathan Overpeck >> >> *To:* wg1-ar4-ch06@joss.ucar.edu >> >> >> *Sent:* Friday, July 28, 2006 6:32 PM >> >> *Subject:* [Wg1-ar4-ch06] Fwd: Additional In-Press Papers >> >> >> Hi Chap 6 LA's - here is another batch of papers from the >> TSU to be considered using the guidelines provided below >> - we don't want to add citations just to make our ref >> list more complete. >> >> Thanks, Peck and Eystein >> >> >>> X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >>> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:25:25 -0600 >>> From: IPCC-WG1 >> > >>> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en >> >> To: Jonathan Overpeck , >> Eystein Jansen >> Subject: Additional In-Press Papers >> >> Dear CLAs >> >> Please find attached additional paper(s) that are >> relevant to your chapter and have been submitted in >> response to our most recent guidelines for >> consideration of papers published in 2006 following >> the expert and government review. A separate >> spreadsheet file is attached listing: the submitter, >> file name of the paper, its acceptance date, and the >> chapter and section which the submitter feels is >> relevant. >> >> As discussed in Bergen, please note the following: >> * inclusion of additional papers in the final draft >> should not open up any substantive issues that were >> not in the second draft and so not previously reviewed; >> * additional papers should only be used where in the >> view of the LAs doing so provides a more balanced >> coverage of scientific views; >> * we anticipate that a quick reading of the abstract >> of each paper will enable a decision consistent with >> this and we would not encourage any lengthy >> consideration by the LA team. >> >> One additional point to keep in mind is that this >> most recent adjustment of our publication deadlines >> should not be perceived by others as a device for >> allowing the LAs to reference more of their own >> papers. We trust that you and your team will be both >> objective and vigilant when deciding to include or >> reject papers in this respect. >> >> Best regards, >> WG1 TSU >> >> -- >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> IPCC WGI TSU >> NOAA Chemical Sciences Division >> 325 Broadway DSRC CSD08 >> Boulder, CO 80305, USA >> Phone: +1 303 497 7072 >> Fax: +1 303 497 5686/5628 >> Email: ipcc-wg1@al.noaa.gov >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jonathan T. Overpeck >> Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth >> Professor, Department of Geosciences >> Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences >> >> Mail and Fedex Address: >> >> Institute for the Study of Planet Earth >> 715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor >> University of Arizona >> Tucson, AZ 85721 >> direct tel: +1 520 622-9065 >> fax: +1 520 792-8795 >> http://www.geo.arizona.edu/ >> http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wg1-ar4-ch06 mailing list >> Wg1-ar4-ch06@joss.ucar.edu >> http://lists.joss.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/wg1-ar4-ch06 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jonathan T. Overpeck >> Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth >> Professor, Department of Geosciences >> Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences >> >> Mail and Fedex Address: >> >> Institute for the Study of Planet Earth >> 715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor >> University of Arizona >> Tucson, AZ 85721 >> direct tel: +1 520 622-9065 >> fax: +1 520 792-8795 >> http://www.geo.arizona.edu/ >> http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/ >> >> >> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Glaciers 30 july so.doc >> (WDBN/«IC») (00148B9A) > > > -- > > Jonathan T. Overpeck > Director, Institute for the Study of Planet Earth > Professor, Department of Geosciences > Professor, Department of Atmospheric Sciences > > Mail and Fedex Address: > > Institute for the Study of Planet Earth > 715 N. Park Ave. 2nd Floor > University of Arizona > Tucson, AZ 85721 > direct tel: +1 520 622-9065 > fax: +1 520 792-8795 > http://www.geo.arizona.edu/ > http://www.ispe.arizona.edu/