cc: "Stephan Bojinski" , "Lefebvre Christiana" , Rösner Stefan , "Schneider Udo" date: Tue Nov 11 13:59:28 2008 from: Phil Jones subject: Re: AW: WG: GSN and CLIMAT from DMI Greenland to: "Fuchs Tobias" , "Richard Thigpen" , Tobias, I wasn't thinking of the donor fund. I was thinking of some NMSs considering that some stations are not good candidates for GSN or GUAN just because funding isn't secure for that long. This is the perennial issue of many important observations and dataset development coming out of research budgets. I suspect that when Stephan and others at GCOS look through the national GCOS reports they will see this as a recurring theme. Cheers Phil At 13:38 11/11/2008, Fuchs Tobias wrote: Dear Phil, i will check with Asheville their database inventory concerning Greenland. Based on the answer i will contact our GCOS focal point in Denmark. Concerning Summit station and GSN stations with no ensured long term operation we might discuss (Dick will be able to help), if something could be done based on the GCOS Donor Fund or based on other financial sources (e.g. concerning Europe we might discuss this issue with EUMETNET EUCOS). Regards, Tobias ___________________________________________________________________________________ Von: Phil Jones [[1]mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] Gesendet: Mo 10.11.2008 11:04 An: Fuchs Tobias; Richard Thigpen; thigpenr@erols.com Cc: Stephan Bojinski; Lefebvre Christiana; Rösner Stefan; Schneider Udo Betreff: Re: WG: GSN and CLIMAT from DMI Greenland Tobias, Thanks for the update from DMI about Greenland. The automation issues are being faced by many other countries, but it seems that DMI is on top of the issues. It would be useful to check in a few months that all the long records from Greenland are available at the archive centre in Asheville. As for the Summit site, we perhaps want to talk about this at the next AOPC. I helped in putting together the UK report to GCOS. The lack of any long-term guarantee on site operation didn't stop the UK naming some sites in the GSN and GUAN, so perhaps we should tell DMI that their concerns about this are not as serious as they think. Cheers Phil At 08:33 05/11/2008, Fuchs Tobias wrote: >Dear Phil and Dick, > >i was tasked during the last AGG meeting to >contact DMI Denmark in order to explore >possibilities for inclusion of 04416 (Summit AWS) in the GSN. > >It took some time for DMI to investigate the case and make up their mind. >Below please find the answer from our GCOS focal point in Denmark. > >04416 will continue as long as possible as additional research station, >but they can not guarantee long term operation >of this station (for details see Item 1 below). >Thus they have major concerns to include this station in GSN. > >But DMI has also good news for the coming year: >- all research stations in Greenland are planned >to be made available throught GTS >- they will improve their processing and QC >system concerning CLIMAT (Item 2 was related to >GSNMC results showing data quality problems regarding >CLIMAT from Greenland) > >Best Regards, >Tobias > >Tobias Fuchs >Deutscher Wetterdienst >Business Area Climate and Environment Department KU4 (Hydrometeorology) >Head of Division KU42 (Precipitation Monitoring) and of the >Global Precipitation Climatology Centre (GPCC) > >Postbox 10 04 65 >D-63004 Offenbach am Main > >Tel.: +49 - 69 - 8062 2872 >Fax: +49 - 69 - 8062 3987 >email: tobias.fuchs@dwd.de; gpcc@dwd.de >Internet: [2]http://gpcc.dwd.de; [3]http://www.gsnmc.dwd.de >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >Von: ckh@dmi.dk [[4]mailto:ckh@dmi.dk] >Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2008 17:55 >An: Fuchs Tobias >Betreff: GSN and CLIMAT from DMI Greenland > >Dear Tobias >Your are on my list of "to do's" - here during >my stay at WMO/CHy XIII in Geneva" > >I have two issues I should answer you: > >GSN - Summit > >and > >the missing content of some 2009 CLIMATs > >Excuse me for answering in this little informal >way on both in one mail (but I am away from my >office and on my webmail) - if you need formal >letters/answers please let me know (an I will >make them when back in Copenhagen after CHy.(next week). > >Item 1 > >GSN-Summit. >This has been considered very carefully in our >department as we of course recognize the >international interest in having it included in >the GSNetwork The situation is that DMI >established this station as a temporary station >years ago in connection with the ice-core >drillings conducted by a temporary Research programme (Ice core drilling). > >The station was intended to support the Ice core >studies, and was put up as the logistics were >present (regular flights to the location) in the >years with heavy activity in the Summit drilling >camp As the years have gone by - luckily it has >been possible to maintain the station and >service it regularly to the benefit for >everybody interested in data from the >Greenlandic Icecap However - the service of the >station depends entirely on the occasional >opportunity of charter flights from the coast to >Summit - flights operated by research parties. >DMI have - at the moment - no >technical/logistical options to ensure/guarantee >regular service and maintenance of this station >This means that it will only be in operation as >long as somebody else operates and finance such transports. >In the coming year we will see two developments in Greenland: >- we expect to see many more stations on >GTS - as we work on getting the data >from all research stations - temporary as more >permanent - in real time data and make them available through GTS. >- We are in the beginning of our own >technical modernization of DMIs automatic >weather stations along the coast of Greenland >(the locations prioritized by meteorologists and NWP-modellers). >So - now to the conclusion: >Our rationale is to say that stations we suggest >as GSN stations should be stations we our self >believe we can "keep alive" and ensure long timeseries from. >In the case of Summit that is not the case at the moment >- we can not ensure that it will operate >to morrow, nor that we can visit it for >service next year or every year, so we consider >it an additional station (we are happy for as >long as it works - like any other research >station) I hope that you - from my long and >detailed explanation can understand our concerns >about putting it on the GSN list. > >Item 2 > >CLIMAT/missing data from Nuuk, as well as desire >to extend the CLIMAT with more information/more groups. > >Thank you for notifying me on this deficit/lack of information. >I have been looking into this matter and - here I have a more positive answer: > >You may be aware that DMI reorganized its >departments in 2006/7 At the same time some of >our core people on these matters retired This >combined with the fact that we in these years >are implementing brand new Stat-Obs and Clima >databases and QC - means that there are a few >areas where we have to get up to date - the Climat is one of these areas. > >Right now the Climat is made up monthly in a >more manual and traditional way based on the >data available in our old databases - >- the unfortunate reason for the missing >data have been that we due to some >technical problems have only partially >timeseries in the database from the missing >months of Nuuk data however based on your >notification and our focus on this matter we are >sending technicians to Nuuk who in this/next >week will repair the station as well as retrieve >the missing data from the datalogger on site. >This -. Combined with our plans for shifting the >CLIMAT from partly manually production/our old >databases to our new databases and high QC >system in 2009 means that I expect that we: >a) will be able to make the missing CLIMATE >reports from Nuuk and reissue them >b) we during 2009 will address the question >on extending the CLIMAT as described >in your mail >c) we during 2009 will shift to a QC system >that may assure that we will find >and correct such errors > >I hope this will be satisfactory for you and I >will get back to you later this year when we >have the result from the data-rescue operation in Nuuk > >Once again thank you for notifying us. > >Kind regard >(from a long first day at the Commission of >Hydrology XIII....) //Claus (Kern-Hansen) > >Citat Fuchs Tobias : > > > Dear Mr. Kern-Hansen, > > > > do you have an answer concerning potential inclusion of station 04416 > > "Summit AWS" in the GCOS Surface Network (GSN)? > > > > Best Regards, > > Tobias Fuchs Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------