cc: André Berger , Urs Neu , Martin Hoffert , Karl Taylor , Ken Caldiera , Curt Covey , "Michael E. Mann" , Raymond Bradley , Malcolm Hughes , Phil Jones , Kevin Trenberth , Tom Crowley , Scott Rutherford , Caspar Ammann , Keith Briffa , Tim Osborn , Michael Oppenheimer , Steve Schneider , Ellen Mosley-Thompson , Eric Steig , , , , , Jürg Beer date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 15:06:06 -0400 from: Mike MacCracken subject: Re: anti-CO2 to: Gabi Hegerl , Tom Wigley To all--Before everyone gets into this anti-Vatican talk on climate change, I would urge you to read the statement of the US Bishops on Climate Change at http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/international/globalclimate.htm I think it is one of the most thoughtful statements from the moral community on the issue. In saying this, I need to mention my involvement, however. Several years ago the AAAS Committee on a Dialog between Science and Religion, which normally addresses issues dealing with biotechnology, etc., held a session on climate change. I was asked to give the science talk. The meeting also then had presentations by representatives of many of the major religions about their philosophical view toward the environment and human activities. Very interesting. Although I am not Catholic (or much of anything), I was asked to serve as the science expert on a committee put together by the US Catholic Conference (under its Environmental Justice committee), which is the staff organization that supports the Bishops. It had representatives of various groups within the Catholic Church and often got rather theological, etc. (I kept asking how this would be understood more widely). In the end, their approach to the statement was to recognize that the Bishops are not experts in science (so they accepted the IPCC as representing the science), are not experts in technology (so they did not get into what technologies to pursue), are not experts in politics (so did not come out for or against Kyoto--quite a number of Protestant churches did come out specifically for Kyoto), etc.--but that their (the Bishops) expertise is in stating the moral underpinning on which the discussion should be based. As the statment indicates, they then focused on issues of equity and stewardship. During our discussions, a representative of the equivalent part of the Vatican bureaucracy came over and spoke with us. Their representative basically said they did not have the necessary level of expertise to be the first part of the Church to address this issue and figure out they type of statement to mak--too much else on their plate. So, they were happy the US conferernce was developing its statement, and they follwed along with it. I rather imagine they could have vetoed it if they had wanted. This statement, however, as I recall, passed unanimously. Unfortunately, its exposure has been overshadowed somewhat by other matters, but I am told they have gotten the word around about it. So, I would suggest not pushing this idea of Zichichi adopting his position due to a view of the Catholic Church--having met him during nuclear winter discussions in the mid 1980s, I would guess the explanation lies elsewhere (and I have written Zichichi directly as did Andre experssing my concern about his views). Mike MacCracken > From: Gabi Hegerl > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:48:31 -0400 > To: Tom Wigley > Cc: André Berger , Urs Neu , > Mike MacCracken , Martin Hoffert > , Karl Taylor , Ken Caldiera > , Curt Covey , "Michael E. > Mann", Raymond Bradley , Malcolm > Hughes , Phil Jones , Kevin > Trenberth , Tom Crowley , Scott > Rutherford , Caspar Ammann , Keith > Briffa , Tim Osborn , Michael > Oppenheimer , Steve Schneider , > Ellen Mosley-Thompson , Eric Steig > , jmahlman@ucar.edu, wuebbles@atmos.uiuc.edu, > jto@u.arizona.edu, stocker@climate.unibe.ch, Jürg Beer > > Subject: Re: anti-CO2 > > Such a committee would be very helpful, I agree. > It could also address issues such as publicising who funds scientists > with polical influence > (if its true the vatican sponsors "sceptics" (pun intended), that would > be an outrage > to lots of people, adding a few degrees to the already very hot water > these guys are in > with their base)!! > > by the way, the ultraconsevative guys would be those who would insist > that if god would > want to save the planet, HE would do it. The others would > argue that people are the stewarts of the planet and have to act > responsibly, there is lots of > writings of catholic theologians and I am sure also theologians of other > faiths on that... > > Gabi > > > Tom Wigley wrote: > >> Andre, >> >> I agree. I heard that Zichichi has links with the Vatican. A number of >> other greenhouse skeptics have extreme religious views. Perhaps they >> believe that god would not let us do this to the planet, and that, if >> we do, she will save us? >> >> Hmmmm. >> >> Tom. >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> André Berger wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> More I read your email about the "anti-CO2", more I am convinced that >>> an International Committee on Ethics in Geo-Sciences is needed. >>> Indeed either we do not answer their attacks or we lose time and >>> money doing it. The third solution is an official statement telling >>> what the members of such a Committee of Ethics think about >>> irresponsible statements by such anti-CO2 fellows. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> André >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************* >>> Prof. A. BERGER >>> Université catholique de Louvain >>> Institut d'Astronomie et de Géophysique G. Lemaître >>> 2 Chemin du Cyclotron >>> B-1348 LOUVAIN-LA-NEUVE >>> BELGIUM >>> Tel. +32-10-47 33 03 >>> Fax +32-10-47 47 22 >>> E_mail: berger@astr.ucl.ac.be >>> http://www.astr.ucl.ac.be >>> ************************************************************************* >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gabriele Hegerl > Division of Earth and Ocean Sciences > Nicholas School for the Environment and Earth Sciences > Duke University, Durham NC 27708-90227 > Ph: 919 684 6167, fax 684 5833, email: hegerl@duke.edu > http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/faculty/bios/hegerl.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >