cc: "Phil Jones" , "Mcgarvie Michael Mr \ k364" date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:01:24 +0100 (BST) from: P.Jones@uea.ac.uk subject: Re: FW: Freedom of Information request (FOI_07-04) to: "Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\)" Dave, If all he wants is a list of the stations then I can probably send him this. It his going to do him absolutely no good to get this though. I guess if he gets this information he will at least be able to see that 98% of the data are in the other archives. I'm in Vienna next week, Geneva the on after this. I'm not back in CRU for a week until the one after May 11. He will just have to wait. There are not significant differences from the GHCN nor the GISS datasets. Ask him how he defines significant. Cheers Phil > Phil/Michael, > As expected, Mr. Eschenbach is not satisfied with our most recent > letter. I guess the essential question is whether we have the list of > actual sites used for HadCRUT3, and if not, who does.... I would like to > avoid a formal appeal process here that will simply result in where we > are at now with the possibility of further appeal to the ICO.... > If the information as Mr. Eschenbach describes simply does not exist > here, we can report that and I will, if he still doesn't agree, start > the formal process of the appeal.... > > Cheers, Dave > > ________________________________ > > From: Willis Eschenbach [mailto:willis@taunovobay.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:03 AM > To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) > Subject: Re: Freedom of Information request (FOI_07-04) > > > Dear Mr. Palmer: > > Thank you for your response. However, it does not solve the problem. In > your original response you said: > > > > Your request for information received on 28 September now been > considered and I can report that the information requested is available > on non-UEA websites as detailed below. > > The Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN-Monthly) page > within US National Climate Data Centre website provides one of the two > US versions of the global dataset and includes raw station data. This > site is at: > http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/ghcn-monthly/index.php > > This page is where you can get one of the two US versions of the > global dataset, and it appears that the raw station data can be obtained > from this site. > > Datasets named ds564.0 and ds570.0 can be found at The Climate & > Global Dynamics Division (CGD) page of the Earth and Sun Systems > Laboratory (ESSL) at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) > site at: http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas/tn404/ > > Between them, these two datasets have the data which the UEA > Climate Research Unit (CRU) uses to derive the HadCRUT3 analysis. The > latter, NCAR site holds the raw station data (including temperature, but > other variables as well). The GHCN would give their set of station data > (with adjustments for all the numerous problems). > > They both have a lot more data than the CRU have (in simple > station number counts), but the extra are almost entirely within the > USA. We have sent all our data to GHCN, so they do, in fact, possess all > our data. > > In accordance with S. 17 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 > this letter acts as a Refusal Notice, and the reasons for exemption are > as stated below > > Exemption Reason > > > > s. 21, Information accessible to applicant via other > means Some information is publicly available on external websites > > > > While it is good to know that the data is available at those two web > sites, that information is useless without a list of stations used by > Jones et al. to prepare the HadCRUT3 dataset. As I said in my request, I > am asking for: > > > > 1) A list of the actual sites used by Dr. Jones in the > preparation of the HadCRUT3 dataset, and > > 2) A clear indication of where the data for each site is > available. This is quite important, as there are significant differences > between the versions of each site's data at e.g. GHCN and NCAR." > > > > Without knowing the name and WMO number of each site and the location of > the source data (NCAR, GHCN, or National Met Service), it is not > possible to access the information. Thus, Exemption 21 does not apply - > I still cannot access the data. > > I don't understand why this is so hard. All I am asking for is a simple > list of the sites and where each site's data is located. Pointing at two > huge piles of data and saying, in effect, "The data is in there > somewhere" does not help at all. > > To clarify what I am requesting, I am only asking for a list of the > stations used in HadCRUT3, a list that would look like this: > > > > WMO# Name Source > 58457 HangZhou NCAR > 58659 WenZhou NCAR > 59316 ShanTou GHCN > 57516 ChongQing NMS > > > > etc. for all of the stations used to prepare the HadCRUT3 temperature > data. > > That is the information requested, and it is not available "on non-UEA > websites", or anywhere else that I have been able to find. > > I appreciate all of your assistance in this matter, and I trust we can > get it resolved satisfactorily. > > Best regards, > > w. > > > ________________________________ > > on 4/12/07 5:22 AM, Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) at David.Palmer@uea.ac.uk > wrote: > > > > > > Mr. Eschenbach, > Further to my letter of 15 March, I attach further information > regarding your email of 8 March and the appeal of our decision of 13 > February. Don't hesitate to contact me with queries or concerns. > > Cheers, Dave Palmer > > > <> > > ____________________________ > David Palmer > Information Policy Officer > University of East Anglia > Norwich, England > NR4 7TJ > > > > > >