date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:55:41 +0100 from: "Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\)" subject: RE: FW: Freedom of Information Act / Environmental Information to: "Phil Jones" , "Mcgarvie Michael Mr \(ACAD\)" Phil, Good news re the locations data. I would recommend putting the data on the website as any further requests could simply be referred to the website itself - in this case, we could provide the data itself; just from a political point of view, I would rather 'give' the data directly than 'refuse' under s.21 and point them to a website. Just spoke to Doug Keenan on the phone and he seems a reasonable chap - I explained that I had received the below email from you and that the prognosis for his request was positive. I hope that this might avoid the appeal situation we have with our other 2 requesters. I have an obligation to try to sort the appeals informally but I'm not sure how to bridge the gap between us saying the data is on the US websites and the requesters saying that it isn't! I note that Steve McIntyre in his note to me of 12 March talks about the identification of the stations for the 1990 study - would the input data files you have for the 1990 study cover the west Russian, Chinese and Australian networks he requests? It might be worth meeting next week to discuss anything I could say to McIntyre & Eschenbach to either (a) satisfy them, or (b) convince them that pursuing an appeal would be fruitless (assuming it would be!) Cheers, Dave ______________________________________________________________________________________ From: Phil Jones [mailto:p.jones@uea.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 3:15 PM To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB); Mcgarvie Michael Mr (ACAD) Subject: Re: FW: Freedom of Information Act / Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_07-13 ; EIR_07-03) Dave, I have found all the input data for the paper from 1990. This includes the locations of the sites and the annual temperature values. If I were to get someone in CRU to put them on our web site, do you think that would keep them quiet, or just spur them into more requests? The 1990 paper data isn't that much, just 6 small files, each of about a half an A4 page. My earlier email about the other request (the first one) for all our data still stands. See the same points below. If you feel another meeting may be useful, then let me know. I had a brief exchange with Alan Kendall of ENV, which I didn't find very useful. Cheers Phil 1. CRU's monthly mean surface temperature dataset has been constructed principally from data available on the two websites we informed you about in early February. Our estimate is that >98% of the CRU data are on these sites. 2. CRU has augmented this dataset with data collected from National Met Services (NMSs) in many countries of the world. In gaining access to these NMS data, we have signed agreements with many NMSs not to pass on the raw station data, but the NMSs concerned are happy for us to use the data in our gridding, and these station data are included in our gridded products, which are available from the CRU web site. These NMS -supplied data may only form a very small percentage of the database, but we have to express their wishes. The World Meteorological Organization has a list of all NMSs. 3. We would like to point out here that CRU is doing a service to the climatological community around the world, by making these and many other gridded datasets and products available. We are continually being thanked by scientists around the world (both personally and through acknowledgements within published papers). All these scientists are happy to use these gridded products, rather than deal with the raw station data. 4. The CRU data have periodically been sent to NCDC (for inclusion in GHCN) . GHCN include these by having multiple versions of data for many sites. 5. CRU has made homogeneity adjustments to many station records - see the most recent discussion in Brohan et al. (2006). Details of the homogeneity adjustments are given in the two publications from 1985 and 1986. These later two publications also give the sources of the data we had around those dates. References Brohan, P., Kennedy, J., Harris, I., Tett, S.F.B. and Jones, P.D., 2006: Uncertainty estimates in regional and global observed temperature changes: a new dataset from 1850. J. Geophys. Res. 111, D12106, doi:10.1029/2005JD006548. Jones, P.D., Raper, S.C.B., Santer, B.D., Cherry, B.S.G., Goodess, C.M., Kelly, P.M., Wigley, T.M.L., Bradley, R.S. and Diaz, H.F., 1985: A Grid Point Surface Air Temperature Data Set for the Northern Hemisphere, U.S. Dept. of Energy, Carbon Dioxide Research Division, Technical Report TRO22, 251 pp. Jones, P.D., Raper, S.C.B., Cherry, B.S.G., Goodess, C.M. and Wigley, T.M.L., 1986: A Grid Point Surface Air Temperature Data Set for the Southern Hemisphere, 1851-1984, U.S. Dept. of Energy, Carbon Dioxide Research Division, Technical Report TR027, 73 pp. At 19:05 16/03/2007, Palmer Dave Mr \(LIB\) wrote: A response from our latest requester. I will respond on Sunday noting that the use of EIR in no way is determinative of the resolution of his request and reinforcing our use of EIR - we have no option in the matter under s.39 FOIA, and the intention of the requester is irrelevant. Cheers, Dave ___________________________________________________________________________________ From: D.J. Keenan [[1]mailto:doug.keenan@informath.org] Sent: Thu 15/03/2007 22:32 To: Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) Subject: Re: Freedom of Information Act / Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_07-13 ; EIR_07-03) Dear Mr. Palmer, My request is to be processed under the FOI, not the EIR; this was made clear in my application. I ask your office to formally accept or refuse my FOI request as made. If your office fails in this, I intend file a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office. If your office refuses my application on the grounds that the information I requested is "environmental information", then I ask that the refusal notice identify which part of the definition of "environmental information" (a-f) you believe applies. This is in addition to adhering to your other obligations when issuing a refusal notice for an FOI application. Sincerely, Douglas J. Keenan ----- Original Message ----- From: [2]Palmer Dave Mr (LIB) To: [3]doug.keenan@informath.org Sent: Thursday, 15 March, 2007 17:13 Subject: Freedom of Information Act / Environmental Information Regulations request (FOI_07-13 ; EIR_07-03) Mr. Keenan, Attached please find a letter acknowledging your request of 12 March 2007. It also contains further information regarding the handling of this request. I will be in contact with you further in due course. Cheers, Dave Palmer <> ____________________________ David Palmer Information Policy Officer University of East Anglia Norwich, England NR4 7TJ Prof. Phil Jones Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 University of East Anglia Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk NR4 7TJ UK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------