cc: Ian Harris date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:45:56 +0100 from: philip.brohan@metoffice.gov.uk subject: Re: [Fwd: CRU Station Lists] to: P.Jones@uea.ac.uk Phil, Harry. I'm sorry to admit that I can't find the 4349 list, or the program I used to find that number. Attempting to reproduce it now, I get the same count as you: 4138 stations provide at least 1 observation to CRUTEM3. I can't think of any set of 4349 stations that I might have got by mistake, so I suspect that it's a typo - It's certainly an error, and (unless you object) I'll write to Steve McIntyre to say so (and add a note to the CRUTEM3 web page). On McIntyre's other points: He can get all the near-real-time updates from the CRUTEM3 web page ( http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates ) We could also put the source code online - I've copied the internal software and documentation to a temporary site so you can see it ( http://brohan.org/philip/job/crutem3/docs/ - please keep this URL secret) - this could be added to http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3 if that would help to damp the conspiracy theories. What do you think? Regards, Philip On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 18:15 +0100, P.Jones@uea.ac.uk wrote: > Harry, > Thanks. Hopefully Philip has the 4349 list. > > Just looked at Climate Audit. There is a thread on this. > McIntyre not so nice.... > > Cheers > Phil > > > > Hi > > > > From my project notes: > > > > > > Summary of Station Changes > > This was effected with the program 'findchanges.for', which > > identifies three > > categories of station - those added, those changed, and those > > deleted. Testing > > the entire process (ie comparing the original station file with the > > rev10 one) > > yielded the following counts: > > > > 28 orig_vs_rev10.add.dat > > 483 orig_vs_rev10.chg.dat > > 53 orig_vs_rev10.del.dat > > > > This agrees with the operations performed. > > > > > > I'm attaching the first and third of these. > > > > I think the 55 (rather than 53) comes from two stations having their > > normals zeroed? Again, from my notes: > > > > > > newbigfile90x.rev10.dat ** this version locked and sent to Philip > > Brohan ** > > This revision incorporates the changes made as a result of gridding, and > > attempting to get the 1961-1990 mean normalised data to nudge 0. The > > following > > stations were deleted in the sense that their normals were set to > > missing: > > 606070 292 -2 -999 TIMIMOUN ALGERIA 19691974 101969 > > 814010 55 540 4 SAINT LAURENT MARONI FRENCH GUIANA 19611990 101961 > > ..this was because the first only has a few values, with high > > variability, and > > the second consists of two decades of temperatures with one of missing > > values in between, and the earlier decade is significantly warmer > > than the > > second. > > > > > > Sorry - I don't even remember WRITING this never mind the context! I > > would note that the final sentence could easily be misinterpreted; > > what I should have said is that it indicated that the data was from > > two disparate stations. > > > > I can't locate a 4349 list.. > > > > Cheers > > > > Harry > > > > On 2 Oct 2007, at 17:43, P.Jones@uea.ac.uk wrote: > > > >> > >> Harry, Philip, > >> Well the arch skeptic McIntyre has found the page Mike put > >> up and it wasn't enough! I expected that, but not his use of > >> nice language in this email! > >> Anyway, I've said I would try and do something in when > >> back from Australia - not next week (as that is busy as well), > >> but the week after that. > >> In the meantime, can you Harry send me a list of the 4349 > >> stations and the 55? I've emailed Philip in case Harry > >> doesn't have the 4349 list. I know Harry has the 55. > >> When I get back, I can then check the 4349 and 4138 and > >> find what additional stations were extracted in the 2006 > >> paper. I know that I took out about 35 US sites as these > >> had crept back despite being deemed 'urban' in work in > >> the 1980s. > >> I think the rest relate to changes in Australia, Canada > >> and NZ wrt station number changing and newer series. > >> > >> No rush on this. > >> > >> It is warm and sunny in Sydney. Woke at 2am, but did get 12hrs > >> sleep, now have to co-ordinate this with the night-time here! > >> > >> Cheers > >> Phil > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------- Original Message > >> ---------------------------- > >> Subject: CRU Station Lists > >> From: "Steve McIntyre" > >> Date: Tue, October 2, 2007 5:05 pm > >> To: "'Phil Jones'" > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ---- > >> > >> Dear Phil, thank you for placing the list of CRU stations online. In > >> the webpage, I think that you will find that this is a good idea and > >> will go some way to removing a pointless cause of criticism. > >> > >> You refer to "a look-up Table which associates some current WMO > >> station > >> numbers with the earlier values we are using." This is necessary for > >> the use of the list and I would appreciate it if you would either send > >> me a copy of it or place this online. The online listing shows 4138 > >> stations (as you observe), while Brohan et al listed 4349 stations > >> (as > >> you also observe.) Brohan et al 2006 refers to 55 stations being > >> remove > >> for duplication while the current list shows a larger number. I would > >> appreciate a list of the 4349 stations referred to in Brohan as > >> well as > >> the 55 stations then removed. > >> > >> The webpage also states: "Additional updates in near-real time (either > >> monthly or annually) come directly from Australia, Canada, New > >> Zealand, > >> Austria, the Nordic countries and a few others." It would be > >> helpful if > >> the "few others" were specifically listed or alternately could you > >> email > >> me the names of these few others. > >> > >> Concurrent with the information on stations, I think that you should > >> provide as complete a documentation as possible for your calculations, > >> including the provision of source code, as otherwiie you will > >> undoubtedly continue to have piecemeal inquiries resulting from the > >> presently incomplete documentation. > >> > >> Regards, Steve McIntyre > >> > >> > > > > Ian "Harry" Harris > > Climatic Research Unit > > School of Environmental Sciences > > University of East Anglia > > Norwich NR4 7TJ > > United Kingdom > > > > > > > -- Philip Brohan, Palaeoclimate Scientist Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research Tel: +44 (0)1392 884574 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681