cc: i.harris@uea.ac.uk date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:21:37 +0100 from: Philip Brohan subject: Re: [Fwd: CRU Station Lists] to: Phil Jones Phil That figure is made from the same master station list I use for everything else (5067 stations, 4138 of which have normals and SDs and contribute to the dataset). Philip On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 08:29 +0100, Phil Jones wrote: > Philip, > Just checking. You've not got the file(s) with the co-ordinates of the > stations that produced Figure 1 in the 2006 JGR paper? Or is that > list 4138? > I'm going to find out from someone at UCBerkeley if the student > who requested all the data really is a student. > Tomorrow, I hope to have some time to decide how to respond. > > Cheers > Phil > > > At 09:25 09/10/2007, philip.brohan@metoffice.gov.uk wrote: > >Phil. > > > > OK - I won't do anything, there's no rush. > > > >Philip > > > >On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 08:20 +0100, Phil Jones wrote: > > > Philip, > > > Just back from Australia. Don't do anything just yet - at least > > > for a few days. > > > I've some lecturing today and tomorrow, but will get back soon. I'll also > > > forward something else just arrived. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > At 16:45 08/10/2007, you wrote: > > > >Phil, Harry. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry to admit that I can't find the 4349 list, or the program I > > > >used to find that number. Attempting to reproduce it now, I get the same > > > >count as you: 4138 stations provide at least 1 observation to CRUTEM3. > > > > I can't think of any set of 4349 stations that I might have got by > > > >mistake, so I suspect that it's a typo - It's certainly an error, and > > > >(unless you object) I'll write to Steve McIntyre to say so (and add a > > > >note to the CRUTEM3 web page). > > > > > > > > On McIntyre's other points: He can get all the near-real-time updates > > > >from the CRUTEM3 web page > > > >( http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3/data/station_updates ) > > > > We could also put the source code online - I've copied the internal > > > >software and documentation to a temporary site so you can see it > > > >( http://brohan.org/philip/job/crutem3/docs/ - please keep this URL > > > >secret) - this could be added to http://hadobs.metoffice.com/crutem3 if > > > >that would help to damp the conspiracy theories. What do you think? > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > > >On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 18:15 +0100, P.Jones@uea.ac.uk wrote: > > > > > Harry, > > > > > Thanks. Hopefully Philip has the 4349 list. > > > > > > > > > > Just looked at Climate Audit. There is a thread on this. > > > > > McIntyre not so nice.... > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > From my project notes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Summary of Station Changes > > > > > > This was effected with the program 'findchanges.for', which > > > > > > identifies three > > > > > > categories of station - those added, those changed, and those > > > > > > deleted. Testing > > > > > > the entire process (ie comparing the original station file with the > > > > > > rev10 one) > > > > > > yielded the following counts: > > > > > > > > > > > > 28 orig_vs_rev10.add.dat > > > > > > 483 orig_vs_rev10.chg.dat > > > > > > 53 orig_vs_rev10.del.dat > > > > > > > > > > > > This agrees with the operations performed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm attaching the first and third of these. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the 55 (rather than 53) comes from two stations having their > > > > > > normals zeroed? Again, from my notes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > newbigfile90x.rev10.dat ** this version locked and sent to Philip > > > > > > Brohan ** > > > > > > This revision incorporates the changes made as a result of > > gridding, and > > > > > > attempting to get the 1961-1990 mean normalised data to nudge 0. The > > > > > > following > > > > > > stations were deleted in the sense that their normals were set to > > > > > > missing: > > > > > > 606070 292 -2 -999 > > TIMIMOUN ALGERIA 19691974 101969 > > > > > > 814010 55 540 4 SAINT LAURENT MARONI FRENCH GUIANA > > 19611990 101961 > > > > > > ..this was because the first only has a few values, with high > > > > > > variability, and > > > > > > the second consists of two decades of temperatures with one > > of missing > > > > > > values in between, and the earlier decade is significantly warmer > > > > > > than the > > > > > > second. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry - I don't even remember WRITING this never mind the context! I > > > > > > would note that the final sentence could easily be misinterpreted; > > > > > > what I should have said is that it indicated that the data was from > > > > > > two disparate stations. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't locate a 4349 list.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Oct 2007, at 17:43, P.Jones@uea.ac.uk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Harry, Philip, > > > > > >> Well the arch skeptic McIntyre has found the page Mike put > > > > > >> up and it wasn't enough! I expected that, but not his use of > > > > > >> nice language in this email! > > > > > >> Anyway, I've said I would try and do something in when > > > > > >> back from Australia - not next week (as that is busy as well), > > > > > >> but the week after that. > > > > > >> In the meantime, can you Harry send me a list of the 4349 > > > > > >> stations and the 55? I've emailed Philip in case Harry > > > > > >> doesn't have the 4349 list. I know Harry has the 55. > > > > > >> When I get back, I can then check the 4349 and 4138 and > > > > > >> find what additional stations were extracted in the 2006 > > > > > >> paper. I know that I took out about 35 US sites as these > > > > > >> had crept back despite being deemed 'urban' in work in > > > > > >> the 1980s. > > > > > >> I think the rest relate to changes in Australia, Canada > > > > > >> and NZ wrt station number changing and newer series. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> No rush on this. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> It is warm and sunny in Sydney. Woke at 2am, but did get 12hrs > > > > > >> sleep, now have to co-ordinate this with the night-time here! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Cheers > > > > > >> Phil > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ---------------------------- Original Message > > > > > >> ---------------------------- > > > > > >> Subject: CRU Station Lists > > > > > >> From: "Steve McIntyre" > > > > > >> Date: Tue, October 2, 2007 5:05 pm > > > > > >> To: "'Phil Jones'" > > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >> ---- > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Dear Phil, thank you for placing the list of CRU stations > > online. In > > > > > >> the webpage, I think that you will find that this is a good idea and > > > > > >> will go some way to removing a pointless cause of criticism. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> You refer to "a look-up Table which associates some current WMO > > > > > >> station > > > > > >> numbers with the earlier values we are using." This is > > necessary for > > > > > >> the use of the list and I would appreciate it if you would > > either send > > > > > >> me a copy of it or place this online. The online listing shows 4138 > > > > > >> stations (as you observe), while Brohan et al listed 4349 stations > > > > > >> (as > > > > > >> you also observe.) Brohan et al 2006 refers to 55 stations being > > > > > >> remove > > > > > >> for duplication while the current list shows a larger > > number. I would > > > > > >> appreciate a list of the 4349 stations referred to in Brohan as > > > > > >> well as > > > > > >> the 55 stations then removed. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The webpage also states: "Additional updates in near-real > > time (either > > > > > >> monthly or annually) come directly from Australia, Canada, New > > > > > >> Zealand, > > > > > >> Austria, the Nordic countries and a few others." It would be > > > > > >> helpful if > > > > > >> the "few others" were specifically listed or alternately could you > > > > > >> email > > > > > >> me the names of these few others. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Concurrent with the information on stations, I think that > > you should > > > > > >> provide as complete a documentation as possible for your > > calculations, > > > > > >> including the provision of source code, as otherwiie you will > > > > > >> undoubtedly continue to have piecemeal inquiries resulting from the > > > > > >> presently incomplete documentation. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Regards, Steve McIntyre > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian "Harry" Harris > > > > > > Climatic Research Unit > > > > > > School of Environmental Sciences > > > > > > University of East Anglia > > > > > > Norwich NR4 7TJ > > > > > > United Kingdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Philip Brohan, Palaeoclimate Scientist > > > >Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research > > > >Tel: +44 (0)1392 884574 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 > > > > > > Prof. Phil Jones > > > Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 > > > School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 > > > University of East Anglia > > > Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk > > > NR4 7TJ > > > UK > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- > >Philip Brohan, Palaeoclimate Scientist > >Met Office Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research > >Tel: +44 (0)1392 884574 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 > > Prof. Phil Jones > Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090 > School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784 > University of East Anglia > Norwich Email p.jones@uea.ac.uk > NR4 7TJ > UK > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Palaeoclimate Scientist Met Office Hadley Centre