date: Mon Jun 2 13:28:58 2008 from: Keith Briffa subject: Fwd: Re: A General Call for Input to a Meeting on Palaeoclimate to: drdendro@ldeo.columbia.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:27:48 +0100 To: Rob Wilson From: Keith Briffa Subject: Re: A General Call for Input to a Meeting on Palaeoclimate Uncertainties Rob I agree with virtually everything you say - thanks. I will not be at the meeting now as Amy , my daughter is ill , but will forward this on (I think virtually all points are covered in my brief notes to Ed anyway) to ED and Dave Frank who will be leading the tree-ring discussion in my abscence. Cheers Keith At 11:13 18/05/2008, you wrote: Hi Keith, will keep this as short as possible as you could be inundated with all sorts of replies. Rosanne has already sent you divergence related info. I think the only thing I would add is that the 'divergence' issue should really only be addressed and examined for those TR proxy series which have a strong relationship with climate. I was recently at the TRACE meeting in Poland and everybody was seeing divergence, but when the TR records only correlate at ~0.4 with some climatic variable, it all comes a bit academic and meaningless. Many of the RW chronologies in Alaska which show divergence are really only weak temperature proxies at best even in the period prior to divergence. This has become a bit of a bandwagon which was never my intention. So - areas where I think dendroclimatologists should focus: 1. We need to specifically move on from the concept that "15 trees are enough". If at all possible we should try and encourage people to sample as much as possible and not be afraid to try and go for more than 50 series/trees per year. Of course this will not always be possible/easy when extending living material with historical/sub-fossil material, but there is no reason to restrict ourselves to only relatively few trees in the living period. High replication will help us overcome signal to noise issues as well as limitations in detrending etc. 2. Some sort of strategic update of the large scale networks (Schweingrubers being the best example) is needed. Many of the important chronologies around the Northern Hemisphere need to be brought up to present. This will result in addressing potential calibration issues in the recent period, but also ensuring that resulting reconstructions will also extend to present. Also where possible for those key sites (e.g. Tornetrask etc) which are always used in NH recons for example, some sort of validation is needed of their long term trends. Hakan Grudds recent update of Tornetrask, I think, is no more believable than the original version (I am not saying this in a negative way it just needs some validation). It would be much better to develop another similarly long TR record from a neighbouring climatologically similar region to check long term trends. The Alpine example is a good example of this where multiple independent TR series have now been developed which all basically show the same story. 3. A better sampling of different age classes within a stand. At the very least, I think we should sample both young and old trees at a site. This will facilitate the use of detrending methods such as RCS as well as allowing for analyses to test for age dependent relationships. 4. In the context of large scale millennial length reconstructions, we need to target regions where no long 1000+ year TR record exists (as well as updating existing ones!). We may not entirely agree on this, but I feel that much more good quality data are needed for better estimates of NH temperatures especially during the MWP. Also, if we really want better spatial information we must increase the density of the current NH network. For example - there are no 1000+ year long records between the Yukon and Labrador surely we, as a community, can fill this gap? 5. Although RW data is a nice cheap proxy, more often than not, the climate signal is not as strong as we would like. We need to encourage labs to also measured density (or possibly the related blue reflectance measure) where possible. For example Greg Wiles is sitting on a 1500+ year long highly replicated composite for coastal Alaska and no density work has been done on this material. I believe Dave Frank may have started negotiations in this direction though. 6. Isotopes. I am watching results from ISONET and MILLENNIUM closely. My gut feeling is that in those regions and for those species where traditional RW/MXD do very well, stable isotopes do not provide any more useful information. However, there are encouraging results in areas where traditional approaches provide no information, where isotopes may indeed allow some sort of climatic interpretation. For example temperature data from C and O isotopes measured from Oak samples in Northern Britain etc. 7. We should not assume that the early instrumental record is robust. The recent work in the Alpine region with Reinhard Bohm et al. shows how TR proxy records could at least help identify homogeneity issues in climate records. Of course, we need to have faith in the proxies, but with more replication, multiple sites etc, I think this should not be a problem given time. 8. Finally, w.r.t. to NH reconstructions, individual constituent TR chronologies should be assessed for their climatic relevance at the local scale ONLY i.e. they are robust estimates for local/regional climate. It does NOT matter how they correlate with large scale NH temperatures. Anyway hope the comments are of some use Regards Rob Keith Briffa wrote: A General Call for Input to a Meeting on Palaeoclimate Uncertainties PLEASE NOTE - this message has been sent to a representative selection of those working in different tree-ring laboratories - please forward to those of your colleagues who would be interested - THANK YOU Dear Colleagues, I have been tasked with drafting the White paper in the general topic of Reducing Uncertainties, in my case with a focus on tree-ring data. This is meant as the basis for discussion at a wider meeting dealing with various high-resolution proxy data, being held in Trieste funded by PAGES/CLIVAR. Hence I am asking for specific input from any of those among you who wish to contribute specific points or stress, even briefly or as concepts, areas of concern regarding present work or future requirements. The context is general dendroclimatology and the use of tree-ring-derived climate reconstructions specifically for establishing the precedence of instrumental observations in a recent multi-millennial context. The specific issues I have been asked to address include: 1) sources of climate interpretational uncertainty how can this be quantified and represented? 2) strategies for reducing these uncertainties? 3) database / data archiving needs and ideas? The white paper is only intended to be several pages long so specific ideas, concerns etc. along the lines indicated, would be very welcome. I would then try to condense them and draft the text. I must complete this task in the next 2 weeks so brief, initial thoughts and points that you consider must be included would be most welcome. At present Ed Cook ,Rosanne D'Arrigo and Dave Frank are included among the participants ( Congratulations to Jan Esper on the recent arrival of a brace of beautiful girls - provided they take after their mother that is) and I would particularly hope for input from them but I know it is vital to get wider input from others working in this area of dendroclimatology or who have real concerns with the issue of climate change detection and attribution and the use of tree-ring data for model validation or work aimed at quantifying transient climate sensitivity in the real world. Any thoughts, specific text or important PowerPoint slides would be most welcome. With very best wishes and thanks Keith Briffa 15^th May 2008 -- Professor Keith Briffa, Climatic Research Unit University of East Anglia Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K. Phone: +44-1603-593909 Fax: +44-1603-507784 [1]http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Rob Wilson Lecturer in Physical Geography School of Geography & Geosciences University of St Andrews St Andrews. FIFE KY16 9AL Scotland. U.K. Tel: +44 01334 463914 Fax: +44 01334 463949 [2]http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg/people/wilson/ ".....I have wondered about trees. They are sensitive to light, to moisture, to wind, to pressure. Sensitivity implies sensation. Might a man feel into the soul of a tree for these sensations? If a tree were capable of awareness, this faculty might prove useful. " "The Miracle Workers" by Jack Vance ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Professor Keith Briffa, Climatic Research Unit University of East Anglia Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K. Phone: +44-1603-593909 Fax: +44-1603-507784 [3]http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/ -- Professor Keith Briffa, Climatic Research Unit University of East Anglia Norwich, NR4 7TJ, U.K. Phone: +44-1603-593909 Fax: +44-1603-507784 [4]http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/